New looting proposal.

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Karma

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Posts: 583

(Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:00 PM)

Darkonian

I still think that only thieves should be able to loot. Remove master looting, don't allow non-thieves to loot from anything that isn't blatantly obvious. Problem solved. How is it a problem that a thief has to "go through" the same spiel every time they loot someone? Mages and other spellcasters have to read the exact same thing every time they want to cast a particular spell. No one's complaining about that.

Does the noise in my head bother you?

Avlis

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Posts: 311

(Tue, Jun 16, 2009 10:53 PM)

Darkonian

Well, to be fair, we do complain when the spells are all monosyllabic and repeat 5 times, and are slurred to the point where you can't tell the difference between ice storm and fireball.

But I think that you and I are of agreement Karma. No Master looting. Non-thieves loot obvious crap, no searching the body. We can work on defining that's obvious and what's not. Thieves can find stuff on a person's person...Master looter is just too darn fast.

Eric | Avlis
Ranger of the Woods of Elidor

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Sir Bendore

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Posts: 986

(Wed, Jun 17, 2009 8:26 AM)

Knight Baronet

Lets work on wording then, because the three of us (Karma, Avlis and myself) seem to agree.

Earl Sir Bendore Dubh, Lord Royal Constable

Chosen Saint of the Pale Lady
Shah of Paledor
Thief of the Realm
Killer for the Secret Moot Cabal
Lord Royal Constable
Knight of the Realm
Royal Darkon Constabulary - http://darkonrcd.yuku.com/

Sir Bendore

[-]

Posts: 987

(Wed, Jun 17, 2009 8:29 AM)

Knight Baronet

cormacbamc wrote:
Most campout elders have insisted upon a rule that adventure items be in plain sight for the last couple years. It is by no means mandatory but has precedent. Was this bad?

I foresee more movement toward specially set-aside areas for storage of in-game items. The campout I helped to run recently was something of an experiment in this.

As a side note, I personally see nothing wrong with creative concealment of consumables and general wealth. I remember a campout long ago in which you had to put everything you looted into a big elder supplied bucket. Rokugan's solution was to put every random Darkon related object in camp into this bucket so that anyone looting it had a hell of a time sorting through it all. My first law is that the more important the adventure item is to the smooth flow of the campout events, the more prominently displayed and less effectively hidden it must be.

Which forces people like to become more clever in how it is hidden. Make the rule that it has to be open displayed in camp or on a person, and you won't find the person even though they will be in play. If you want to keep things manageable find ways to allow things to be hidden or those of us in the business of hiding things will find ways. Make it impossible and you take away the abilty for small groups to succeed at any campout.

Earl Sir Bendore Dubh, Lord Royal Constable

Chosen Saint of the Pale Lady
Shah of Paledor
Thief of the Realm
Killer for the Secret Moot Cabal
Lord Royal Constable
Knight of the Realm
Royal Darkon Constabulary - http://darkonrcd.yuku.com/

Psychopompos

[-]

Posts: 2630

(Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:37 AM)

Darkon President

Karma wrote:
I still think that only thieves should be able to loot. Remove master looting, don't allow non-thieves to loot from anything that isn't blatantly obvious. Problem solved. How is it a problem that a thief has to "go through" the same spiel every time they loot someone? Mages and other spellcasters have to read the exact same thing every time they want to cast a particular spell. No one's complaining about that.

Because for Mages (and other casters), the reading serves two purposes:

1.) It acts as a timer
2.) It lets everyone around them know they are casting (and that they can be disrupted)

For Thieves, you don't want everyone around to have their attention drawn, and it's so fast anyway that the timer function is sort of moot. Why not just have a short count, maybe even vary it by rank like Pick Pockets has now?

We have this bad habit of thinking that something makes sense just because that's the way it's been done. It would be dumb if we had to say something like, "I am a Thief, here is my key, I want to Loot you so I begin my Looting now in the name of thievery...and remember this is OOC conversation. Let me now search your left boot!"

--Earl Inox Elsonáge Thensiur

Master Thief and Roué
Warriors' Guild Member
Elidorian Minister of Trade
Force Commander of the Elidorian Army
Knight of the King's Guard
Earl of the Realm
President of Darkon 2007-2009

Psychopompos

[-]

Posts: 2631

(Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:40 AM)

Darkon President

Sir Bendore wrote:
Which forces people like to become more clever in how it is hidden. Make the rule that it has to be open displayed in camp or on a person, and you won't find the person even though they will be in play. If you want to keep things manageable find ways to allow things to be hidden or those of us in the business of hiding things will find ways. Make it impossible and you take away the abilty for small groups to succeed at any campout.

OR we could find some other way, so that people weren't blurring the line between in play and out of play.

Hiding deep in the woods where no fighting ever happens? Sketchy.
Hiding your items in camp under leaves, near tents or other mundane stuff, or in non-period containers? Sketchy.

If the only way a small group can win is by hiding items in this fashion, they don't deserve to win.

--Earl Inox Elsonáge Thensiur

Master Thief and Roué
Warriors' Guild Member
Elidorian Minister of Trade
Force Commander of the Elidorian Army
Knight of the King's Guard
Earl of the Realm
President of Darkon 2007-2009

Kesrya

[-]

Posts: 218

(Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:49 AM)

Sir Bendore wrote:
I hate this but have no alternative idea how to address the concerns you raise, though they may not be concerns for others no one else is taking part in the conversation.

Bendore -- I'm still reading this thread and considering all the various opinions and solutions being offered. I will definitely be bringing a proposal to Senate over the next 6 months after carefully considering all that has been discussed and brainstormed. No worries that you hate this alternative at present -- with the new voting system of Senate, we have plenty of time to keep thinking and therefore offer the best possible proposal. I would not rush to come up with wording right now. Let's keep discussing and brainstorming for awhile so we can all see many different possibilities.

Kesrya Ravine, Mage of Elidor
Torynn, Ranger of Elidor
Fouchon, Party Girl of Redemption

Elidorian Minister of Information
Chair of the Unofficial Elidorian Welcoming Committee
Unofficial Minister of Bitch
Goddess of Cheesy Bacon Potatoes

Sir Bendore

[-]

Posts: 988

(Wed, Jun 17, 2009 12:31 PM)

Knight Baronet

Kesrya wrote:

Sir Bendore wrote:
I hate this but have no alternative idea how to address the concerns you raise, though they may not be concerns for others no one else is taking part in the conversation.

Bendore -- I'm still reading this thread and considering all the various opinions and solutions being offered. I will definitely be bringing a proposal to Senate over the next 6 months after carefully considering all that has been discussed and brainstormed. No worries that you hate this alternative at present -- with the new voting system of Senate, we have plenty of time to keep thinking and therefore offer the best possible proposal. I would not rush to come up with wording right now. Let's keep discussing and brainstorming for awhile so we can all see many different possibilities.

I'm not rushed. I can wait for Master Looter to be removed from the game. I just hope the Senate is more careful in the future about what it passes in regards to skills.

Earl Sir Bendore Dubh, Lord Royal Constable

Chosen Saint of the Pale Lady
Shah of Paledor
Thief of the Realm
Killer for the Secret Moot Cabal
Lord Royal Constable
Knight of the Realm
Royal Darkon Constabulary - http://darkonrcd.yuku.com/

Karma

[-]

Posts: 585

(Wed, Jun 17, 2009 4:11 PM)

Darkonian

Psychopompos wrote:

OR we could find some other way, so that people weren't blurring the line between in play and out of play.

Hiding deep in the woods where no fighting ever happens? Sketchy.

Really? I completely disagree. That's not sketchy (aside from the fact that most sketchy type characters need to do this at some point to save their hide ), that's thinking outside of the box. Not only that, but isn't this pretty much what Elidor did with their noble during the kingmaker campout? Enemy Group A comes up, Kesrya disappears into the woods. I'm not complaining about the tactic, only the apparent hypocrisy. Explanation, please?

Hiding your items in camp under leaves,

Absolutely. If you can't be bothered to look under some leaves during your search, you suck at searching. Try again, or send a better person to search.

near tents or other mundane stuff, or in non-period containers? Sketchy.

Not cool. Using personal property to hide IC stuff in is cheesy, because no one is ALLOWED to search it. I can't go into your teat or bag to find the item of Campout Winning, but I CAN look under that pile of leaves, or notice that figure deep in the woods... what're they doing out there? Is she holding something?

If the only way a small group can win is by hiding items in this fashion, they don't deserve to win.

If a smaller group can't outfight the bigger countries, they have to out-think them. There's a difference between cheesy conduct and clever action.

Does the noise in my head bother you?

Psychopompos

[-]

Posts: 2633

(Wed, Jun 17, 2009 5:06 PM)

Darkon President

Karma wrote:

Really? I completely disagree. That's not sketchy (aside from the fact that most sketchy type characters need to do this at some point to save their hide ), that's thinking outside of the box. Not only that, but isn't this pretty much what Elidor did with their noble during the kingmaker campout? Enemy Group A comes up, Kesrya disappears into the woods. I'm not complaining about the tactic, only the apparent hypocrisy. Explanation, please?

First off, it's my understanding that she was in the area between the camps, where people DO roam. Second, I had nothing to do with that tactic; I am not Elidor. It should be ABUNDANTLY clear by now to anyone on these boards that Elidorians frequently disagree.

Absolutely. If you can't be bothered to look under some leaves during your search, you suck at searching. Try again, or send a better person to search.

The whole forest is covered by leaves, man. Am I supposed to clear every bit of leaves everywhere near someone's camp? Please, this is cheesy as hell. Where's the line? Can you throw things in the stream? Hide them deep in a rotting log?

--Earl Inox Elsonáge Thensiur

Master Thief and Roué
Warriors' Guild Member
Elidorian Minister of Trade
Force Commander of the Elidorian Army
Knight of the King's Guard
Earl of the Realm
President of Darkon 2007-2009

Sir Bendore

[-]

Posts: 991

(Wed, Jun 17, 2009 7:44 PM)

Knight Baronet

Simply state - On a person or in a camp. PERIOD. Then you don't have to worry about people hiding them outside camps in a rotting log.

Earl Sir Bendore Dubh, Lord Royal Constable

Chosen Saint of the Pale Lady
Shah of Paledor
Thief of the Realm
Killer for the Secret Moot Cabal
Lord Royal Constable
Knight of the Realm
Royal Darkon Constabulary - http://darkonrcd.yuku.com/

Psychopompos

[-]

Posts: 2635

(Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:03 PM)

Darkon President

Sir Bendore wrote:
Simply state - On a person or in a camp. PERIOD. Then you don't have to worry about people hiding them outside camps in a rotting log.

"In a camp" isn't sufficient unless we break up the OOC & IC/fighting areas clearly.

--Earl Inox Elsonáge Thensiur

Master Thief and Roué
Warriors' Guild Member
Elidorian Minister of Trade
Force Commander of the Elidorian Army
Knight of the King's Guard
Earl of the Realm
President of Darkon 2007-2009

Fingers630

[-]

Posts: 2927

(Wed, Jun 17, 2009 10:09 PM)

Elidor's noble was in play in between Elidor and Ched/Teradox. There is a friggin path there so it is not a super secret area.

Hell since the 6 of us had to fight the entire realm twice, I don't think we did too bad. Secondly, it was pointed out to us when a large force came back to Elidor to see what happened, YOUR King (Prince Slindar) hid back in that same area

Fingers the Rogue
Queen of the Silly People
Co-Founder of the Order of the Ridiculously Silly Mantle
___________________________________________________________________________________
Yah know, when the government takes away our guns, and enimies attack our land, the people of Darkon, with their sword skills, will save us.

Karma

[-]

Posts: 586

(Thu, Jun 18, 2009 2:08 AM)

Darkonian

Not complaining about the tactic, Fingers. It was actually pretty damn clever. However, let's not kid ourselves - most people simply don't know that little path is there. So, essentially she was heading into the woods to hide.

Good plan, really. Frusterated the hell out of us.

Does the noise in my head bother you?

Psychopompos

[-]

Posts: 2636

(Thu, Jun 18, 2009 10:22 AM)

Darkon President

Karma wrote:
Not complaining about the tactic, Fingers. It was actually pretty damn clever. However, let's not kid ourselves - most people simply don't know that little path is there. So, essentially she was heading into the woods to hide.

WTF are you talking about?! Just about EVERYONE knows that path is there, unless it's perhaps their first campout. Your countrymen are constantly walking to your camp using it.

It's been there for SEVEN YEARS.

--Earl Inox Elsonáge Thensiur

Master Thief and Roué
Warriors' Guild Member
Elidorian Minister of Trade
Force Commander of the Elidorian Army
Knight of the King's Guard
Earl of the Realm
President of Darkon 2007-2009

Sir Bendore

[-]

Posts: 993

(Thu, Jun 18, 2009 12:28 PM)

Knight Baronet

Psychopompos wrote:

Sir Bendore wrote:
Simply state - On a person or in a camp. PERIOD. Then you don't have to worry about people hiding them outside camps in a rotting log.
"In a camp" isn't sufficient unless we break up the OOC & IC/fighting areas clearly.

I agree that 'camp' needs to be defined.

Earl Sir Bendore Dubh, Lord Royal Constable

Chosen Saint of the Pale Lady
Shah of Paledor
Thief of the Realm
Killer for the Secret Moot Cabal
Lord Royal Constable
Knight of the Realm
Royal Darkon Constabulary - http://darkonrcd.yuku.com/

Kesrya

[-]

Posts: 220

(Thu, Jun 18, 2009 2:45 PM)

I was, in fact, laying down in a pile of leaves and sticker bushes directly off the path -- when i lifted my head, i could see everyone in ched's camp, as well as people coming down the path near moot's camp and the port-a-pots. I enjoyed listening to a verrrrry long conversation about what several of you were planning to do for dinner, and Anya's frustrations about the other country's kings. I wouldn't call it "deep in the woods" -- essentially as soon as I stood up and started walking back to my camp, I was spotted.

Kesrya Ravine, Mage of Elidor
Torynn, Ranger of Elidor
Fouchon, Party Girl of Redemption

Elidorian Minister of Information
Chair of the Unofficial Elidorian Welcoming Committee
Unofficial Minister of Bitch
Goddess of Cheesy Bacon Potatoes

Titus V

[-]

Posts: 168

(Thu, Jun 18, 2009 9:17 PM)

Darkonian

I think what Kesrya did was totally fine. I did the same thing except that Mordom (Exodus to be more precise) took the time to search around the Exsilium camp and found me.

Havoc of Ched Nasad

[-]

Posts: 136

(Thu, Jun 18, 2009 9:46 PM)

Kesrya wrote:
I was, in fact, laying down in a pile of leaves and sticker bushes directly off the path -- when i lifted my head, i could see everyone in ched's camp, as well as people coming down the path near moot's camp and the port-a-pots. I enjoyed listening to a verrrrry long conversation about what several of you were planning to do for dinner, and Anya's frustrations about the other country's kings. I wouldn't call it "deep in the woods" -- essentially as soon as I stood up and started walking back to my camp, I was spotted.

It was an in play area along a regular path. It was fun going back in to clear you out

Aedan "Havoc" Cathair Marauder of Ched Nasad
"One who follows the heart finds it will bleed. Feel nothing but victory."
"submit or die"
Keeper of the *Warm* Chaos Brownies
Corporal Deputy Royal Constable Aedan "Havoc" Cathair, Commanding
A Patrol, 1st Company, Bendorian Guard, Royal Darkon Constabulary

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